[Accrs-ho] March Good Guys

Thu Mar 12 00:50:31 PDT 2015

Group:

Sorry for my big goof.  That line should have read "not to discourage members of their participation in the hobby.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: ACCRS HO Scale <accrs-ho at mail.accrs.org>
To: accrs-ho <accrs-ho at mail.accrs.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 11, 2015 7:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Accrs-ho] March Good Guys

Message From: Lee And Joan Buckner  buckyrailfan at aol.com

 Dean:

 Lets call a truce.  I still disagree with you doing the project, without approval of the HO scale members, but what's done is done.  I will enjoy running a stack train when I'm able to put one together.  I also disagree with you when someone in the club has a disagreement with you, that you keep bringing up that you donate this, and that, as if it entitles you to something.  As you have said I have donated some cars to the club, but I don't use that as a chip to get me a special entitlement, or keep bringing it up to other members, with whom I might have a disagreement with.

 I do agree with you to an extent of running prototypical trains, and try my best.  I'm in the process of putting a UP DLS (stock train) together.  Four of the cars painted in the UP yellow/silver scheme are BLI cars based on a PRR stock car.  Again not prototypical but are stand-in's.  Pulled by a set Alco FA, and FB units, which need to get decoders in them.  Also my father was a butcher, so I collect meat reefers.  Would in the future want to run a solid train of them.  Again, prototypical?  I'm not sure, but would bring me pleasure.  I'm putting a PFE reefer train together, which I can run with my two Genises SD9's, or the Stewart F-unit set that YOU, installed decoders in for me.  I have a Stewart FT A-B-B-A set in the Santa Fe original paint scheme, and a Proto 1000 Santa Fe F7 A-B-B-A set in the warbonnet freight scheme in the 200-series that also needs decoders.  Working to put together a Santa Fe reefer train to run with them.  Again I realize that most of the reefers won't be correct, as the hatches open in a different direction than most reefers do.  Again, not perfectly prototypical, but no one who comes to a show will know.  Unbeknownst to you, we have a member who has a Big Boy.  He runs it with a mix of freight cars, that are not of a correct era for a Big Boy.  He ran it with a modern caboose.  I found a correct UP caboose for his train, and donated it to him, so he at least had the correct caboose to run with it.  I've seen other trains on the layout that don't match eras as well.  Also we have younger members who think all tank cars are alike, and have put a corn sweetner tank car at the oil refinery for instance.  Its up to us older members to educate them in a positive manner, so as not to encourage their participation in the hobby.  Lately, the club has seemed to have attracted, a number of new members, which is good for our club, and for the hobby, which I think everyone in the club, we can agree we all love.

 Didn't mean to pick on you, just stating my opinion.  Will see you Saturday at Winterail.

 Lee

----Original Message-----   
 From: ACCRS HO Scale <accrs-ho at mail.accrs.org>   
 To: accrs-ho <accrs-ho at mail.accrs.org>   
 Sent: Wed, Mar 11, 2015 7:30 am   
 Subject: Re: [Accrs-ho] March Good Guys   

Message From: Dean & Margaret Lewis  lewis2 at earthlink.net

 Lee,      

 1.  If you would bother to look, the WS cars are in the metal cabinet under hidden.  Probably on one of the lower two drawers where they fit nicely and don't get banged around.  They are some of the most logical cars to keep there as the overflow cars from Hidden.      

 2.  I did not start the project that night.   I had tried to run a stack train earlier in the day.  I was able to get it around the layout "once" after considerable problems.   After that, I knew where to look for fixes.  I came back the next week or maybe a week after that and started to fix the problem.  I have now worked two Fridays on two portals.      

 I looked at the tunnel portals as a       maintenance problem which to me would fall into the same catagory as fixing a bad section of track or replacing a dropper that needed soldered.  If I am wrong, so be it.  I didn't expend any club funds and now anyone can run stacks through those portals.  It was an easy fix.  I didn't say you approved, I said you thought it was a good idea because you wanted to run your stacks too (with your Mearsk and Mearsk container cars).   That would be a very different and prototypical train and look neat.  Turns our my memory wasn't correct as all I had to do was remove the little stone trim edge around the tunnel entry and widen it slightly and it looks like a concrete tunnel.   Now the portal that leads into the helix is a stone tunnel and probably will need changed if it causes a problem.      

 3.  Pretty much nothing moves unless the main panel is operated.   To me it made more sense to put the monitor over the control panel instead of the passenger panel.  Maybe I am too practical, but I really thought that that was where it was going.  We disagreed and went on with running trains.      

 4.  Not sure why you are upset.   This wasn't supposed to be a "War and Peace" discussion for just a simple maintenance fix and trying to keep Hidden in some semblance of order.      

 Dean      

 On 3/10/2015 8:02 PM, ACCRS HO Scale wrote:      

Message From: Lee And Joan Buckner  buckyrailfan at aol.com

       Dean:

 Here's my response to your comments about the tunnel portals, and I will get to the cars later.

 First, I totally agree with you about notching the tunnel portals, and would have voted yes at the HO meeting on Friday night the 13th.  That night I discussed the issue with a few of the other members, and found out they weren't against it, and some of them don't model the modern era.  I didn't talk to everyone, and can't presume how they would have voted, but I think it would have passed.  But, the fact is that it didn't come up for a vote, as you weren't there.  I know you were at the general meeting, but weren't at the HO meeting.  I don't know why you had to leave before the HO meeting that night, and its really none of my business, but me telling you that I approve you doing the project without getting a vote from the club, doesn't give you approval to do it.  I understand you had already began the project that night.  I went back, and checked one of the emails you sent on 2/10 about the portal project.  You said, quoted as follows:  "I'm not against notching the tunnels as it looks cool.  I don't think they notch stone work tunnels as it would weaken them.  We have to do something to change to concrete style, or raise the ones we have."  End quote.  My reply to you on the same date 2/10, is as follows:  Hi Dean:  Something to discuss during Friday night's HO meeting"  End quote.  I can produce a copy of this email if you want to see it.

 This in no way indicates that because I agreed with you on the concept, and would have voted yes at the meeting of 2/13/15 that you were right in bypassing a vote of the club.  If I had done the same thing you would have been the first one in my face.  You, do remember the incident of the flat screen monitors, don't you?  We voted at a meeting before the fair to put a flat screen monitor over cab three to see how they would handle the fair environment, before committing to putting two over the main cabs, in case that one didn't work out.  When it was put up over cab three, you created a big stink, even making derisive comments about the members doing the work.  You said we voted without your knowledge, when in fact you were at the meeting.  At that time, we had a written voting sheet, and perhaps we should think about going back to that.  When the monitor came through the fair like a champ, and the two monitors were put up over the main cab, you finally calmed down.

 Now, lets get to the cars.  I do have a question for you.  Where are the Wisconsin Southern "one of" cars that the club purchased, and were on the layout?  After the former Trainmaster left the club they seemed to disappear.  I remember a fuss made about it, and they seem to magically appear.  After that fuss died down, they again disappeared.  Where are they?  I have an Wisconsin Southern SD40-2, DCC equipped, and a WS F45 that is right now analog, but will be converted to DCC, that I could run with them.  Now, I agree with you that if I want to run all the WS "one of" box cars together, it isn't prototypical, but the ACCRS is a model railroad club, and doesn't have to report to the Surface Transportation Board, or the ICC before that, depending on the era were modeling.The recurring theme of many of the member's emails I've seen is that model railroading is a HOBBY, and should be fun.  Using your logic of "one of's" shouldn't all of the UP, and NS Heritage locomotives be banned from the layout?  I think not, and I think even you would agree.  I have Santa Fe GP60M No. 146 which was in the Mearsk paint scheme for only two weeks for the photo shoot on Cajon Pass.  Because it was unique, and I worked for an Ocean Shipping Company it was the first GP60M, that I purchased.   I personally like unique locomotives, and cars that are "one of's"  This is what gives me pleasure.  I also have some cars from conventions, other model railroad clubs, and model railroads such as the Virginian & Ohio, etc.  My take is a little different than yours on the hobby.  I don't say your wrong, about what you run.  I think you're a very good modeler, and really enjoy seeing your trains run on the layout, as I do for the other members of the club as well.   Your coal train was awesome.

 Just my take on things.  Didn't mean for this to become "War & Peace."

 Lee 

 -----Original Message-----         
 From: ACCRS HO Scale         <accrs-ho at mail.accrs.org>         
 To: accrs-ho         <accrs-ho at mail.accrs.org>         
 Sent: Mon, Mar 9, 2015 5:17 pm         
 Subject: Re: [Accrs-ho] March Good Guys         

Message From: Dean & Margaret Lewis  lewis2 at earthlink.net

 Lee,           

 Maybe I should just leave you message alone, but there are some interesting comments here.   Since I wasn't there, I don't know who might have shouted you down, but I have a hard time believing this was anything done on purpose.   Also, I don't know of anyone that tells you what cars to run or not.   I know that I feel that trains should look prototypical per the era.  I wouldn't want to see a 53' container car running with a bunch of 1950-60 style 40' box cars.  There is a certain level that should be maintained in our trains to keep them prototypical by era.           

 As far as I know, all major projects get member approval.   I know recently I discovered some tunnel portals that didn't like double stacks.  I widened a couple of portals in the last couple of weeks.   It wasn't voted on as it was more of a maintenance item than a major construction project.  I still have a couple more to fix.   You even said that was a good idea when I discovered the problem.           

 As far as cars on the layout, everybody can run their own cars or use club cars.  Personally, I try to keep "hidden" in some semblance of order.   I try to keep club cars restricted to tracks 1 through 4.   That leaves 5 through 9 for members to set up their own trains.   As we have more cars than those 4 tracks can hold, I have placed the extra ones in the club drawers under hidden.  Since the more modern style cars are the most popular to use, I put the older style in the drawers.  I don't see that as telling anyone what cars they can run.           

 I think that we should respect each other and have fun.  I don't believe there is anyone there that is trying to run the club and I don't think anyone will be trying to tell us which railroad we can model.   I have seen a wide variety of equipment on the layout recently.  It seemed to me that everyone was having fun.           

 Just for the record, I am not a fan of "Thomas the Tank" but others are and run him.   If they are not there, I won't run him.           

 Just my take.           

 Dean           

 On 3/9/2015 4:20 PM, ACCRS HO Scale wrote:           

Message From: Lee And Joan Buckner  buckyrailfan at aol.com

            Group:

 While I've complained about the DCC vis DC issue for the upcoming show,  and I wasn't able to say my piece before getting shouted down, what upsets me most is that we have a couple of members that think the club is "theirs", and not "ours", and their don't have to follow club procedures, such as getting club approval for a project they want, and just go ahead, and do it.  That is why I made the comment that the back of my vests say ACCRS, and not their names.  Also they rule what cars we can run on the layout.  What is next, we have to model the railroad they do?

 I expressed my concern to John Kohlberg about this on Friday night.  

 I express my condolences to you John, and to Ed for having to go through all this, but I feel I have to take a stand on this subject.

 Lee    

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